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or, read some Foucault. ----- DS Bureaucracy™: All our decisions are scrutinised for impartiallity by our very own DS Bureaucracy Probes™ who are proven in our conclusive studies to be 99.9% conclusive. | |||||
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Always comes back down to Foucault for Aidan. ----- Well-behaved women rarely make history. But they sure can make a damn good sammich! | |||||
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You are what you read. ----- DS Bureaucracy™: Where modfags are homoerotic moderators. | |||||
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I've read about 1 half a book by Foucault. I am not actually that influenced by him. My main guide in this view was a History Proffessor at my University... In fact, I'm wondering whether Foucault even talks about family structure, he focusses more on tangible tools of the Government, like Prisons, and Hospitals. ----- DS Bureaucracy™: Sorry. The forums are under maintenance, please call one of our Phone Operator in Malaysia for more infomation. [This post was last updated on November 10, 2009, 2:32AM by hezekiah.] | |||||
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A nuclear familiy promotes the male children to leave, and "Go it alone" - creating their own family which they have to provide for, instead of staying within the extended family network. In say Iran, where there are huge family groups, the productivity of said family is considerably lower than their Western equilavents. The children work towards their fathers trade, and the daughters satelite the family as de facto house wives, along with the wife, or several wives. It's not hugely progressive, there's no drive to achieve for yourself, unlike a nuclear family. Interesting points, but from that can you pull actual case studies or figures which support these concepts in terms of worker productivity? Dunno what changed in the Uk and other western countries to change the family structure like that, it wasn't very long ago that we had tennaments packed with huge families in small houses in Glasgow, for instance. Perhaps this is of some use, but then again it ties in directly to economic values which are relative | |||||
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Yeah, it is definitly true that some areas of Britain have only recently evolved into near pure nuclear family conditions, but you could point to poverty that places like Glasgow have traditionally had, which could correllate with a large urban population living in those kinds of conditions, which don't encourage productivity. And as a result you see large levels of violent crime, and drugs from generations who haven't been given any drive from a nuclear family structure. The same could be said for other areas of subburban housing projects for working class families, which due to unemployment of the father (so a failed equation to the nuclear familiy) lead to crime/poverty/lack of drive to work. ----- DS Bureaucracy™: Expanding our powers to meet the expansive needs of forum expansion. | |||||
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but you could point to poverty that places like Glasgow have traditionally had, which could correllate with a large urban population living in those kinds of conditions, which don't encourage productivity. That's an unsound allegation to make considering that Glasgow [and Belfast] were the industrial hubs of the British Empire at the turn of the century. Glasgow's ship building, chemical and steel industries were very productive, in fact at one point some of the world's finest; besides the tennanments, abject poverty and disease. | |||||
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Yeah, but I'm not talking about what they were, but what they are now. The post-industrial has sent a decay through most of the large industrial cities of the North. In terms of the development of the nuclear family, I'd say that it's far more applicable to the modern economy of Britain; large working class families in Scotland, the North of Ireland, and Northern England existed because of poor contraception, and created a necessity to work long house in factories. Look at India, China, and other manufacturing nations. ----- DS Bureaucracy™: Working towards the uninterchangability and disaccountability abilities in the smallest unimpossiblity of time frames. | |||||
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Scotland for some time was productive regardless of poverty and large unplanned families, infact you could probably correlate the rise of planned families than the decline of the industrial era there. ... and wait, "large working class families"... "like china". :| lol | |||||
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^^ Yeah, I suddenly though about the Government mandated child number, but do you not see why they had to bring it in? The problems highlighted. ----- DS Bureaucracy™: Locking this thread in about 4 minutes | |||||
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I think that was more due to the logistical problems of housing and feeding a population that may climb from 1.3bln under a highly centralised government. | |||||
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Yeah, I guess so. They're also struggling to find ways of culturally assimilating the further reaches of the provinces. It's a pretty bleak world for China outside of Shanghai and Benjing. ----- DS Bureaucracy™: Please stay off the grass... We make no exceptions to posts under influence. | |||||
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If only they adopted a democratic and federative system... aha, if only. | |||||
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Oldest Empire in the world, and counting. Infact, they're the last tangible Empire, well, just about. ----- DS Bureaucracy™: All our decisions are scrutinised for impartiallity by our very own DS Bureaucracy Probes™ who are proven in our conclusive studies to be 99.9% conclusive. | |||||
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Interesting quote regarding the Nuclear family: "With the division of labour, in which all these contradictions are implicit, and which in its turn is based on the natural division of labour in the family and the separation of society into individual families opposed to one another, is given simultaneously the distribution, and indeed the unequal distribution, both quantitative and qualitative, of labour and its products, hence property: the nucleus, the first form, of which lies in the family, where wife and children are the slaves of the husband. This latent slavery in the family, though still very crude, is the first property, but even at this early stage it corresponds perfectly to the definition of modern economists who call it the power of disposing of the labour-power of others. Division of labour and private property are, moreover, identical expressions: in the one the same thing is affirmed with reference to activity as is affirmed in the other with reference to the product of the activity" Karl Marx - The German Ideology ----- DS Bureaucracy™: All our decisions are scrutinised for impartiallity by our very own DS Bureaucracy Probes™ who are proven in our conclusive studies to be 99.9% conclusive. | |||||
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On November 13, 2009, 2:17PM, nodgene said: If only they adopted a democratic and federative system... aha, if only. would be worse for the millions,for most of our lifetimes anyways the place would fall apart ----- yes we could just be the dream of a gigantic robot doing the backstroke through primordial custard,but if we all lived like that the worlds supply of cannabis would dry up within weeks | |||||
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If it was a democratic and federative system, then it would allow for diversity and dialogue, which should help alleviate ethnic and nationalist tensions rather than exacerbate them by strict state media and legal controls. | |||||
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democracy does not equal peace or 'dialogue', at least not in a constructive sense. -----  click! | |||||
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It is the most progressive and humanitarian system we have. I don't see how you can't say such is "constructive" by nature. Unless you'd prefer to opt for an authoritarian option, which can be "peaceful" in the sense of enforcing order, but that's hardly humanitarian. What system would you have instead if you aren't convinced that our present systems are constructive by nature? | |||||
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On November 15, 2009, 6:47PM, nodgene said: If it was a democratic and federative system, then it would allow for diversity and dialogue, which should help alleviate ethnic and nationalist tensions rather than exacerbate them by strict state media and legal controls. yea but can you see china turning to democracy without bloodshed? i cant ----- yes we could just be the dream of a gigantic robot doing the backstroke through primordial custard,but if we all lived like that the worlds supply of cannabis would dry up within weeks |
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